Transcription Episode 017

M.C. Laubscher: This is Cashflow Ninja episode 17 with Mike Harriett and Luke Thiem.

Announcer: Welcome to the Cashflow Ninja, the podcast empowering and inspiring people to discover how to generate their own income and manage grow and protect their own wealth in the new economy. Now, here's your host, M.C. Laubscher.

M.C. Laubscher: Hello everyone, M.C. Laubscher here, and thank you so much for spending some time with me today. I just wanted start of today's episode by expressing my gratitude to all of our listeners. I'm extremely honored and humbled by the support that I'm talking from listeners, family, friends for the show. Thank you so much for spreading the word about the podcast with family and friends and sharing it on social media and subscribing on iTunes and our other platforms and giving a rating and review for the show on these platforms. We've featured within a week of launching of the podcast on iTunes's new and noteworthy in all three categories that the show is listed under business, education, and health, and have been right at the top of new and noteworthy consistently ever since this would not be possible without your support. So thank you so much for making the show part of your daily commute, your work day, your workout, your run or your leisure time.

There's a ton of distractions out there today, and our time is by far our most prized commodity. So again, thank you so much for spending your time with me.

In Episode 011 with Don Wells, we looked at three steps involved in starting a business, which include identifying a problem or pain that you can solve, or of course providing pleasure. Then creating an elegant solution to that problem. And then acquiring or learning a skill or partnering with someone that has that skill or bringing in someone that has that skill to help you implement it. In Episode 013 with Jay Massey, we discussed the importance of knowing exactly whom you served in providing value for. You will see all of these steps in a real world example with my guest today, and I think you'll get a ton of value from today's interview as I surely did conducting it.

My guests today are fellow Rugby players and Chicago Lions, Mike Harriett and Luke Theim, from Re:mind Recover. Concussions have been a big problem for a long time in sports, and in the last three years, there's been an increased awareness of concussions, head injuries, and brain health. It was brought into the public spotlight through an Oscar-nominated film, Concussion starring Will Smith, and it exposed how concussions in football have lead to serious health injuries later in life. Mike and Luke identified the problem and experienced it through concussions of their own, and they came up with a solution to help recovery and support a healthy brain function that includes a proactive approach to brain health rather than reactive. They know exactly who they are serving and providing value to, contact sports athletes. I love their authenticity and the passion with which they tackle this problem in both their business.

Before we jump into our interview with Mike and Luke, I just wanted to thank our sponsors, Audible. You can download any book for free when you try audible for 30 days. You can grab your free trial and audiobook download at cashflowninja.com/freebookdownload and Lead Pages. I use Lead Pages to create all of my landing pages, sales funnels, web-site opt-ins, and popups, and I also use the leads digits feature that allows my listeners that is active and listening on their smartphones to join our community and request valuable resources. Lead Pages is really great way for your customers to connect with your company, and for you to connect with your customers.

Right now Lead Pages is offering a free marketing automation course that includes 12 video modules with step by step strategies to leverage what's working in your business. You can grab the free course at cashflowninja.com/leadpagescourse. That's one word.

Just a reminder that all of our show notes and past shows can be accessed at cashflowninja.com. And you can also join our community and mailing list by texting the word cashflowninja, one word, all capitalized to 44222. That's two 4s' and three 2s'. If you sign up to join our community, I'll email you three of the top ten books ever written on wealth building. Community members on our mailing list also get weekly shows sent directly to the inbox along with other valuable resources and information. If there's a way I can provide more value to you and serve you better, please go to our contact page and send me an email or leave me a voicemail on our speak by voicemail line.

John: Hey, this's John Lee Dumas from Entrepreneur on Fire, and you're listening to the Cashflow Ninja podcast with your host M.C. Laubscher. You must be prepared to ignite.

M.C. Laubscher: With me tonight are two brothers from a special global fraternity, the rugby fraternity, all of us play the greatest game on the planet, Rugby, and both of them are my fellow Chicago Lions. Mike and Luke, thank you for joining me on the show.

Mike: Hey, thanks for having us.

Luke: Yeah, thank you for having us.

M.C. Laubscher: Can you tell my listeners a little bit about your background?

Luke: Sure. I'll start. My name is Luke Theim. I grew up in Wisconsin, started playing Rugby when I was about 14 years old. I've been playing longer now than I haven't been playing, which means I've had a few injuries. I started playing in high school, by my senior year I was captain of the team. And went off to University of Minnesota, earned a partial scholarship. My senior year I was all-American there. And then in 2008, I moved over to Chicago and started playing with the Lions, and I'm the current captain of the Lions teams, and last season I was captain of that team as well.

Mike: I met Luke playing for the Chicago Lions. Prior to joining the Lions, I played football through college at the University of Chicago where I captained the team. Really have enjoyed playing rugby and being part of the sport, and especially part of Chicago Lions.

Luke: We have beautiful tradition, M.C.

M.C. Laubscher: Absolutely. Now I mentioned the great game of rugby, and I'm sure you guys are just as excited as I am that in 2016, we've seen a professional Rugby league launched. proRugby.org, just a little plug there. And that the rugby will be back in the summer Olympics in Rio this year for the first time in almost a hundred years, which the United States, of course, is returning as defending gold medal winners. Now this game has taught us many great life lessons and skill sets. What did you guys learn from rugby that helped you on your journey of entrepreneurship and help you start and build your business?

Luke: Rugby taught us a lot more than just entrepreneurship and starting our business. For me, rugby kind of, it shaped my character. As I said earlier, I started playing when I was a young boy, just 14 years old. And I know in other countries they start much younger. I was playing a lot of other sports. I was playing football, I was playing soccer, wrestling, doing all these other things. And rugby really, really kind of took over my attention when I started playing it. It's something that I absolutely fell in love with. And I think one of the most important things I learned was basically how to think on the fly, make decisions under pressure. Do I kick? Do I pass? Do I run? What sort of defensive strategy am I gonna use? It really helped me think on the fly, and that really applies to everything that I do in business.

Mike and I make lot of decisions. Sometimes those decisions aren't always the best decisions. But we make them and we make that decision aggressively, we move forward with some sort of strategic attack. And if it doesn't work, we change that decision up, we change up that idea and come up with another solution that might work better. And you do the same thing in every rugby game you play. There hasn't been a halftime in the history of rugby where you haven't discussed the first half and what you can do better the second half. And that I can say with confidence.

Another thing that applies for me is just overall perseverance. M.C., I know that we've been teammates for a very short period of time due to injuries. I broke my ankle in 2010, came back for the Lions and had some successful seasons. I think it was 2013, or 2012, I broke my face. Literally, five broken bones in my face, got that fixed, came back. 2013, tore my ACL, came back. Last season, 2015, I tore my pec. Came back, and I'm captain of the team this year. So like, overall it teaches you a ton of perseverance. And there's always going to be challenges, there's always going to be things that come up in everyday life, in your business, and in whatever you're trying to accomplish that day. And perseverance is definitely key. And it applies in rugby, it applies in everything that you do. Yeah, there's nothing that can take the place of it. You have to keep moving forward, whether it's on the rugby field or whether it's in business.

M.C. Laubscher: Right. Mike Tyson said, “Everybody has a plan until they get punched in the face,” right? So, therefore…

Luke: That's definitely true.

Mike: I hate to say it, but Mike Tyson's a genius.

M.C. Laubscher: Yeah, that's definitely something that I learned too, just getting back up, going to the drawing board, the decisions that you have to make under pressure. And just learning the true meaning of what it is to be on a team, one of the true sports where everybody has a place, regardless of size, body type, skill level, etc., everybody's got a place on a rugby team. Now in recent years, there's been an increase in concussion awareness and prevention. So as you guys know, I'm still actively involved in rugby coaching. And I've noticed the increase in discussions around concussions and safety and injury prevention. This is something that's being taken very, very seriously all over the world, well-being of each player is the main priority. And then of course on the larger scale, we've seen an Oscar-nominated film, Concussion starring Will Smith. It was released, exposing how the concussions in football have lead to some serious health injuries later in life. Now let's talk about your company, Re:Mind Recover. Can you guys share the story behind your company, the problem that you guys are addressing and providing a solution for, and the value that you guys are providing to the marketplace?

Luke: Definitely. Right now in contact sports, rugby, football, boxing, it's a big issue. It's something that a lot of people are thinking about, and we wanted to change the current wait and see approach to brain health. And this came out of a personal need that we had. I mentioned that before I played football through college, 14 years playing football. Then playing rugby with the Chicago Lions, and at one point I had to take a little bit of time off to give myself that necessary recovery time. And during that period, I started to wonder, you know, we take care…if you have any type of injury…Luke mentioned his ACL or having the pec, there's some type of recovery process, there's some type of rehab process. But there's nothing like that when you have concussion. And even just those sub-concussive hits that add up over the course of practices and games.

And our coach for rugby was always really big on nutrition. Aaron Manheimer, the coach for the Chicago Lions sevens team. And we said, you know, we had to get recovery drinks after practice to help our muscles with recovery. And I started to wonder, you know, I'm doing all this stuff to take care of my muscles, but why am I not really taking care of my brain the same way? And that lead us to do a lot of research and to reach out to people who were experts in this area, including Dr. Michael Lewis, president of the Brain Health Education and Research Institute, Mike Palm, manager of concussion services at Athletico, here in Chicago, and Dr. Julian Bailes, who you mentioned who was featured in the film Concussion.

Luke: One cool thing that Mike Palm working at Athletico. Athletico is one of our biggest sponsors for the Chicago Lions, and Mike Palm was also our athletic trainer. And we noticed that he was actually doing something a little bit unique, seemed to be a little bit special. Something I hadn't personally seen before. He was giving a whole bunch of fish oil pills to anyone who hit their head in the game. And we noticed that there wasn't necessarily like a good rhyme or reason, at least in my perspective, to like how much fish oil pills should I take? I hit my head. You're telling me I need to take this many milligrams or this many grams. I'm confused, and he was confused too. He was like, “Oh, it depends on the brand. It depends on what you have.”

So Mike and I did some of this research and found that we could change those delivery mechanism of Omega 3s, and the best way to get them into a usable format where players could be compliant was to create what we came up with, Re:Mind Recover. And I mean, it took years, it took us years of consulting with experts, with people like the individuals on our board of advisors that Mike mention, with Dr. Mike Louis, Dr. Julian Bailes, Mike Palm, Julian Burns, the owner of SportFuel and Chicago Blackhawks nutritionists. It took us years and we were able to develop this product that ultimately, really helps us. We created it so that we could take it ourselves. I'm still taking shots on the field, Mike is taking shots on the field. Ironically enough, Mike and I both have suffered concussions in the last what, six months? Mike saws people in half when he tackles them, and sometimes he puts head at risk. I got sawed in half, and we both suffered concussions. And I can honestly say that my recovery was better, my recovery was faster, and the level of contact that it took for me to have all those concussion-like symptoms, it needed to be a bigger hit based on my personal experience with the product.

Mike: For us, it's all about making the most effective product. I mean, we're giving this product out to our teammates. Luke had brothers who play high school rugby.

Luke: I have a little brother, he's 13 years old playing, he's a freshman flanker and starting flanker on the team. Three seniors got hurt so he's starting. And yeah, I've gone to watching videos and I'm just like get this kid Re:Mind Recover now.

M.C. Laubscher: Right.

Mike: It's all about getting those building blocks in there. And Luke and I, when we set out to do this, we wanted to make the most effective product. We both have jobs outside of Re:Mind Recover and our mission was to make the best, the best product, and to not cut any corners when we're doing that. So our name, our reputation behind it, that mission, that vision for the product has really enabled us to connect with some pretty incredible people. I mean, without that mission for what we're trying to do, I don't think we would have been able to connect with Dr. Michael Lewis or Dr. Julian Bailes. We also connected with the Salk Institute for Biological studied out in California, Dr. Pam Mar. And she performed testing on our product which showed that it helped nerve cells survive stress up to five times better and that it had neuroprotective benefits.

Luke: And the cool thing is that she did this because she was curious. She did this because she knew that our passion, she knew that we were creating this product for ourselves. She knew that we were going to be giving this product to our family members and our teammates. And that was an unpaid, unbiased study. And she did multiple, multiple trials, and each one was consistent. Which got us even more excited to continue to develop the product and continue to focus on some of our goals.

M.C. Laubscher: That's really cool that these experts want to be part of it and involved and doing the testing once the saw what you guys are up to. So that's really a credit to you guys. And then also, one thing that I've seen about a lot of folks starting businesses too, it's a problem that they identify that they have that they don't see any solution out there for. And I mean, this is perfect timing too because as we had discussed beforehand too, there's an increase in the awareness of concussions in our society. So this is really, really timely. So guys, what are some of the benefits of using it short term and long term?

Luke: It's all about getting the brain building blocks that it needs post impact. So not just when you have a concussion, but those small hits, those sub-concussive hits can add up over time. I mean, any rugby player is going to be involved in a couple of dozen hard hits per game, whether it's hitting a rock, going into a tackle…

Mike: Yeah, stats show 20 to 40 significant hit contact related hits to the head in a given rugby game, depending on your position.

Luke: And if you're a high school football player, the average high school football player takes over 650 hits to the head per season, including games and practices. It means it adds up over time, and no product is going to prevent or quickly heal a concussion. This is all about giving the brain the nutritional building blocks it needs to have the best chance at bouncing back. And that's what we've learned from working with these doctors and working with these experts in brain health.

Mike: So Dr. Michael Lewis actually has an analogy. He calls it the brick wall analogy. If you have a brick wall and it's damaged, wouldn't you want to replace that wall with other bricks? So that's exactly what it does. We give the brain the building blocks that it needs to recover. We give it an alternative energy source when the regular energy source isn't necessarily working. And that's the goal: to give those athletes and whoever is using the product the best chances for recovery.

Luke: Yeah, and I encourage anyone who's interested in learning more about this topic to look into Dr. Michael Lewis and his Brain Health Education and Research Institute. He has some great articles up on his site, he has a weekly newsletter that he sends out highlighting the effect of these ingredients, of Omega-3s on brain health. Most people are very deficient in these ingredients through their diet. I mean, unless you're eating salmon four or five times a week, you're not going to get the dosage that you actually need for it to be effective. And our product is the highest dosage, it's in the most absorbable form, and it's really easy to take right after practice or a game.

Mike: Yeah. It's not just the Omega-3s. The Omega-3s have to come in a specific form, the liquid triglyceride form which is extremely important for absorption. And after that, Mike and I have added several different vitamins, minerals, and co-factors that help with absorption. And each one of these things have been tested by various neurologists and product formulators, nutritionists across the nation. Each one of them has been proven to help with brain health. So we consolidated these ingredients, we're able to put it in a very effective form that can be field side, does not need to be refrigerated. And an athlete can take immediately after contact which makes it extremely effective and very useful.

Mike: Yeah, the sooner you can get the building blocks back into your brain and back into your body post contact, the better. I mean, you don't want to have to wait to go home to have to take the nutrition that you need to help your brain and help with your recovery.

Luke: I mentioned earlier that Mike Palm had been giving Omega-3, just fish-oil pills on the sideline. And players were trying to use that. And honestly, when Mike and I did the research, we found that it wasn't all that unique. There were close to 70 or 80 division 1 universities here in the United States that were utilizing this strategy. And what we were seeing was the athletes weren't actually doing it. Because the strategy involves taking 30 fish oil pills a day. And it just doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

Mike: It's not practical.

M.C. Laubscher: Now I've seen the reviews that you guys have gotten and just some feedback from the players. And again, there's guys in the NFL already using this. Rugby players, ice hockey, a lot of contact sports. Can you guys talk about that for a second?

Luke: Yeah, I mean, it's been great to be able to get the product out to and in the hands of top athletes and see their reaction to it. I mean, to have athletes like Nate Ebner, you know, New England Patriots world champion, now a USA Sevens player.

Mike: Yup. He just got on the Hong Kong team.

Luke: He's taking a leave of absence from the NFL to try to make the Olympic rugby team.

M.C. Laubscher: Fantastic.

Luke: [inaudible 00:20:17], played a couple of summers with the Chicago Lions, a couple of tournaments. Played most of his time out with Old Blue in New York. He's another guy hoping to make the Rio team. He's been traveling with the United States national team for almost every stop of the World Series. Those guys, but then on top of that even more NFL guys. Like John Herschel, the guy who taught calculus while playing football at Penn State. And he's getting his Ph.D. from MIT this summer.

Mike: Yeah.

Luke: In the off-season. He's kind of universally known as the smartest guy in the NFL. He's just a big genius.

Mike: Yeah, he's a pretty unique guy. And we also, Albert Morris has been a big supporter of the product as well.

Luke: Yeah, Albert Morris. He's one of our endorsers. He's a pro bowl running back. He's on the Dallas Cowboys now. He just left the Washington Redskins. So we look forward to seeing guys like that on the field and promoting the product.

Mike: And actually even outside of rugby and football, we don't even…you know, none of us are, neither of us is an MMA fighter. But we've had MMA fighters reaching out to us through social media, through our website, whatever it may be. Including Diego Sanchez, who was the winner of the Ultimate Fighter Season One. He's had great success using the product.

Luke: He's also over the course of a ten-year career has won like 29 and 30 UFC fights.

Mike: Yeah, I mean the guy's incredible. I mean, his approach to his sport is amazing. I mean, we just love being involved with people like that and helping them with that recovery aspect and helping them take a proactive approach to brain health.

Luke: Could you imagine being in the UFC for ten plus years and how many shots to the head you take? And on top of that, he's saying that without Re:Mind Recovery, he wouldn't be able to continue doing this. And even beyond that, he's saying that over the course of his career, he's taken a lot of supplements and this is absolutely the best one. And he's gone on social media saying that. Yeah, so he's been helping us connect, just through him we've been able to connect with BJ Penn and a lot of other MMA fighters as well, which has been pretty cool. We just want to just keep getting the product out to more athletes. The current wait and see approach to brain health, it has to change, it has to improve, and it can be improved. We all know that taking these hits to the head adds up over time and has negative long term effects. But rugby, football, whatever the sport may be, these sports have real positive benefits. And we shouldn't just stop playing, we should just look at how we can address recovery, and how we can support brain health with our products.

Mike: Just gotta be more proactive about it. One thing we didn't even mention was TCU, they just came out with a football study. They studied all 80 of their players over the course of a season. And they were looking at a neurofilament marker. And they found that using DHA with the same dosage that Mike and I have in Re:Mind Recover, those athletes…it was a double blind study. There was a group of forty athletes or so that had a placebo and a group that had the actual supplement. And the ones who were using the supplement had 40% less of the neurofilament marker that showed for brain trauma. So the team physician and team doctor concluded that there was actually some, what he's calling, some neuroprotective effects of the product. Which was a pretty cool study, to use on an entire football team.

Yeah, it's all about giving the brain the building blocks that it needs. Like Luke says, it's that brick wall analogy. You know, if you have a brick wall that's damaged, you're gonna wanna get other bricks in there to help reinforce it and replace that damage. It's exactly what the Re:Mind Recover does. It's all about providing those building blocks for the brain.

M.C. Laubscher: Now let's talk about the business side of the Re:Mind Recover. Can you guys walk us through the development and the design of the product?

Mike: Definitely. So when we initially came up with the product, we wanted to make a recovery drink for your brain. That was the initial concept, right? We take these recovery drinks after practice, whether it's a protein shake or whatever it is, we're taking some type of recovery drink after practice to help with muscle recovery. And we wanted to make that same product in the most effective version for brain health. So the initial idea was to have it as a full sized drink. We quickly realized that's not necessarily going to be feasible for athletes. It's gonna be a lot simpler if it's in a smaller form. And that's how we ultimately decided to put it in….well, we took a survey first.

Luke: Yeah, we surveyed Purdue college rugby team, university of Minnesota college rugby team, couple of high school rugby teams, the Chicago Lions. We surveyed like I don't remember the sample size. But we surveyed…

Mike: A few hundred rugby players.

Luke: And it was pretty much unanimous with the exception of one person who M.C., I wouldn't describe the guy to you, but I'm sure you can pick it out in a group of 300 people. But it was unanimous that the two-ounce shot approach, almost like the Five Hour Energy, same bottle as the Five Hour Energy, the two-ounce approach would be the most effective for athletes. So that's why we chose that route, and it's been well received, to say the least. But there's a lot that went into the actual design of the label, there're too many things. So many steps that we didn't even know that we'd have to run through. Including label, the bar code, just things that come up like I didn't think. Like there's a company out there that you can outsource to and they give you a barcode.

Mike: Yeah, I mean there's so much we had to learn. And I mean, Luke talked about working with, you know, we talked about working with experts earlier. We were really fortunate to connect with some other entrepreneurs, including Austin Briss [SP], who offered us some really helpful advice on…

Luke: The nuts and bolts piece…

Mike: Yeah, how do you actually get a website where we can sell our product through our website, and then it's gonna be shipped out to someone. And it seems really simple, right? But there's stuff that goes into the backend. And he helped save us a lot of time and really helped, kind of point us in the right direction. And then it was up to us to take it from there.

Luke: Yeah, absolutely. So Mike and I decided to use the Shopify platform. It links up with our accounting software on the back end and our CRM software on the front end. So just those little things, like you don't really think about it all that much, but they will kick up at night if you don't figure them out.

Mike: Yeah, well also too, myself and Luke we started in the business together, and we had to try to do things as efficiently as we could do. So we want all those systems to talk to each other and to work together to make our business run smoothly.

Luke: I think when Mike approached me about this, I told him…he was like, “Okay, so this is what we want to do, this is how we're going ship it out, this is going to be our shipping company. Obviously, we've still got to find manufacturing,” and I was like, time out. Just for a second. Like do you expect me to be up at midnight filling these orders? Because I swear to God this won't work. [inaudible 00:26:57].

M.C. Laubscher: And this is like really a good lesson for people listening, right, that want to start something similar, like a physical product. So you guys are outsourcing the manufacturing, but obviously, you interviewed, you did your due diligence, you found a company that's aligned with your value and that is up to the quality and consistent quality of manufacturing that product that you guys want to put out. And then obviously you've got to find like a third party logistics company or a warehouse fulfillment company that does that for you. And then the branding, the logo design, the packaging, which is…I mean, it's a huge part of a product, right?

But it's just such a good lesson that all of these things when you think about it, we still think, “Oh, I've got to have a factory basically making this myself.” And this is just such a great lesson for people out there to see that this is possible. It's kind of like the, you know, the Tim Ferris model in the four hour work week, where he has all the systems in place but you're overseeing the process, you're overseeing the systems, just to ensure the quality of the entire operation in your business.

Luke: Yeah, and one thing that entrepreneurs may not necessarily recognize when they're starting out is that no one necessarily knows who you are or why you're starting this product. So we had to reach out to a lot of manufacturers and had to do a lot of legwork there to find the right one. We actually visited multiple manufacturers across the United States. I mean, we're flying down to Texas, Arizona. I mean, we called over a hundred…went through a list of over 120…

Mike: Yeah, we went through a list of 400, narrowed it down to 120, 112 specifically. Called 112, narrowed that list down. Went out to Arizona, went out to Texas, went out west to Montana, went out…even visited places locally in the Chicago land market.

Luke: Yeah, California. It was a process.

Mike: And this was taking time out of our…this was our vacation time.

Luke: I mean, this is like you're trying to call somebody on a lunch hour, or if they're on pacific time, trying to call them then.

Mike: My car was our office in the parking garage in downtown Chicago at my office for the day job.

Luke: Yeah, so it was interesting to try to schedule all these things. And I know Mike and I at one point we were like, okay, let's visit this manufacturer in the morning. Like we'll fly out to Dallas, and then we're gonna fly to Phoenix, Arizona to visit this manufacturer in the afternoon. Then we're gonna have the last flight home to Chicago. We'll be home at one or two in the morning.

Mike: And be at work by seven.

Luke: And we'll make it for our rugby workout in the morning, and then get to, make sure we get to the office on time. So it's just, I mean…a lot goes into it, but it's all worth it when you're creating a product that actually helps people. And that's what it comes down to. Mike and I talked about all the things that have gone wrong just before this call. We were just reflecting, brainstorming like hey, what's gone wrong here? Not only what's gone wrong. But you know what? We've created a product that actually works. And ultimately that was the goal. So mission number one, accomplished. Mission number two, how do we get it out to people?

M.C. Laubscher: Right, and you guys are extremely passionate about it, too. You're serving and helping people. And this is, I mean, it's a serious problem which, again, as we've mentioned it in the head on before, it's finally sinking in. And there's awareness created around this issue. Now you're talking about getting out the product to people. So what channels are you guys currently using to distribute the product and what other avenues are you guys exploring?

Luke: Definitely. So we sell the product directly through our website. So anyone can go on there and order it directly from there. We also have some teams that we're selling the product to, and some athletes that we just ship it to directly as well, through relationships that we've developed, reaching out to people, referrals.

Mike: It's just a lot of different verticals. Most of the sales originally came from our first connections. People knew what we were doing. And then it later started branching off to second connections. And now we're getting people ordering that we don't even know where they are, where they come from. It's…everything's done online. Our goal is to make sure that we can have a self-sustained company where we can continue our manufacturing runs in the calendar year of 2017.

M.C. Laubscher: I love it how you guys are organically growing this, too. And it's by word of mouth, and everybody that sees what you guys are doing wants to get involved and wants to spread the word because again, I mean, it's really cool stuff that you guys are doing.

Mike: Right. I think there's probably a reason why Luke and I are the first ones to create this product, specifically this product. Just given the dosage and the quality of the ingredients that we wanted to include in the product, it doesn't have the margins of a traditional supplement. And for us, we keep focusing on this because we have two main principles with the company. One is to have the most effective product, and the other is to work with people who are the experts in each area to help us get there. Whether it's doctors, brain health experts, concussion management experts. Always having the most effective product because it's our name and our reputation associated with it. When you're giving a product out to your teammates or someone you don't even know is ordering it and they're taking it, I mean, that's something to really take seriously. And we really put a lot of weight into that.

Luke: It's not like an elbow pad, somebody is drinking this. It hits home when we know that people are ingesting it, and they're seeing the benefits. I can't tell you how many times we've gotten emails back saying, like hey, thank you, I can sleep at night. Thank you, I can focus at school. Thank you, I can…I'm not getting migraines when I'm looking at my computer at work. You know like, thank you. I'm back on the field and I feel normal. Just all sorts of different people from all walks of life. So it's just…when I say it hits home, it's like…there's days where Mike and I are like, what next? And then we get one of those emails and it's like yeah, this is why we're doing this.

Mike: Yeah, it's a good feeling to be able to get the product out to athletes and seeing a benefit from it, especially because the current wait and see approach to brain health, it just has to change. Yeah, I mean the research is out there. There's things that athletes can do, and we want to help lead that.

M.C. Laubscher: Now the two principles and values of your company that you guys just named, that ties into a question that I ask all of the guests that come on my show. If you cannot pass on any money to your children and grandchildren and you're only allowed on to pass five principles and values to achieve success and happiness, what would they be? And you know, you guys have already listed two. What are the three other values and principles that you guys would add to that?

Luke: Sure, beyond always having the most effective product, that was our first principle, and keeping that integrity piece and surrounding yourself with experts, I mean, that applies in all walks of life. You want to associate yourself with people who can help you. I would say a third principle would be perseverance. We talked a little bit about that before in terms of the knee injuries and coming back. But I think perseverance is really important. And I do because you're going to be presented with all sort of challenges anywhere you go. And if you can persevere through those challenges, you shape yourself into a better human being. So perseverance is really important to me.

Mike: I would say one saying Luke and I kind of have is no regrets. Whether…when you're on the rugby field, you want to play like you have no regrets. And it's the same thing with this, with Re:Mind Recover and any type of business that you're going to start. You don't want a second guess yourself or hold something back. You want to do whatever it takes to make that business successful, or to win on the field if you're playing a game. And we really take that to heart. I mean, it is whatever a case, no regrets mentalities. When you're working on something at 10 or 11 o'clock at night, or on a weekend or whatever it may be to get it done.

Luke: Whatever it takes.

Mike: Yeah, whatever it takes.

Luke: I would say another principle that's important, and I try to do this in everything that I do is try to keep a positive attitude. I think it's so important. I was recently on a hike in Sedona, Arizona. And it got dark and I got lost. And I kept telling myself like, “Stay calm, stay positive.” If you start to lose that positive mentality, positive focus, negative things will happen. So I know that I say this a lot to the people I manage, sales people who I've managed in the past. One of my favorite quotes of all time is Winston Churchill. He said nothing significant has ever been accomplished without positive enthusiasm. That kind of live by that principle as long. As long as you can stay positive, great things will happen for you.

M.C. Laubscher: That's great. Thank you for sharing that. Now you guys, one habit that I've observed from really successful people too is that they're always studying news subjects and learning your skills. Where you at with your company? What are you currently studying? And what new skill sets are you guys currently learning?

Mike: I think we've learned…I mean we've learned a ton since starting this business.

Luke: I wish we knew then what we know now.

Mike: Yeah, I mean making a physical product, the learning curve has been very steep. You know, from finding, figuring out how to find a formulator to work with to make the product, figuring out manufacturing, figuring out shipping and fulfillment…

Luke: What we're doing now mostly…I mean, we've gotten the product. Now we have to figure out a way to get it out there and build awareness and build education and actually sell the product. So that's where we're at right now. That's always a learning piece. There's always strategies you can try. If it doesn't work, you come back to the drawing board and try something else. So one thing we're testing out right now is marketing it online with Ad Espresso. Mike's taken a lead on that, but it's still something we're figuring out.

Mike: Yeah I would say online marketing is an area where we're working to learn more about because a lot of our…the way the product is spreading right now is word of mouth, people reaching out to us organically through our website. And I think there's a lot more we can do to drive people to us that we just haven't done so far yet.

Luke: And then just piggybacking off what Mike's saying, when people are interested in us, they'll go to our website. Well, what makes them actually swipe their credit card from the website? So it's what, where do they fall off? Where are they disengaged, or what would engage them to continue moving forward? So it's just learning that piece. And honestly, I think it's ever evolving, and we just need to narrow down what works most of the time and go with that approach.

M.C. Laubscher: Do you guys have any favorite resources that you use on a daily basis?

Mike: Oh, yeah. We mentioned Shopify, we use Google apps for business. We found that really helpful for storing files, for sharing information back and forth. We use Base CRM which is really cost effective and really useful to use. We used Shipwire as well to ship the product. And in general, that's been pretty good.

Luke: Mike loves Evernote.

Mike: Yeah, Evernote we use.

M.C. Laubscher: Great resource.

Mike: We use Zero Issue as well. So I would say any of those, any of those are really useful. I think one thing Luke and I, we didn't mention, but I think is really, really important is I know that neither of us could have made this product on our own. And I would say that having a good business partner or having someone else you can bounce ideas off us is incredibly, incredibly helpful. Becuase people bring different, different things to the business. And I think that's…we've both learned a lot from each other, and that's been crucial to get us as far we've gotten. Where we have a product that's effective, we have NFL players using it, UFC fighters using it. And it's really helpful to have someone like that to work with on the business.

Luke: I have a tear in my eye, M.C. No, it helps.

M.C. Laubscher: Yeah, it definitely helps. No, that's so true. Now do you guys have any books that you would recommend?

Luke: Dale Carnegie has a book that I think is really beneficial for anyone to read. In any sort of relationship, it can help you in a lot of different areas. But his book is called How To Win Friends And Influence People.

M.C. Laubscher: Great book.

Luke: I think it's a phenomenal book. And an old roommate of mine, Eddy Long introduced me to it when I first moved to Chicago and was trying to get int a sales position. And it's been helpful for me. I even go back to reference some of the things that he says in that book.

M.C. Laubscher: Yeah, it's great. It's a great read. Any books you would recommend Mike?

Mike: I would say Getting To Yes. Just a really a good book on negotiation. Helps give a great overview of negotiations and different strategies you can take. I also think just reading up on all the latest research that's out there. Dr. Michel Lewis, we've mentioned before, has a weekly newsletter that he sends out. I strongly encourage anyone involved in contact sports who's interested in taking a practical approach to brain health to take a look at that. And to do their own research and see what's out there.

M.C. Laubscher: Now how can my audience learn more about Re:Mind Recover and more about your company and what you guys are doing?

Mike: Definitely. You can go to our remindrecover.com and reach us out to us through there.

Luke: Sure. If you want to reach out to us via email, it's just Luke or Mike @remindrecover so luke@remindrecover.com and mike@remindrecover.com. On our website, if you would like to order the product, you can go to our store page. And this is a rugby player, rugby family broadcast. And we have a discount code specifically set up for rugby players called rugby family. So when you're at the checkout page, type in rugby family and you'll get a 20% discount. Something that we set up when we originally started because we want to make sure we're giving back to the rugby community here.

M.C. Laubscher: Perfect. Well, guys, this has been awesome. Thank you so much for coming on the show and sharing your journey and your experience and everything that goes into starting this company and building this company. And thank you so much for the value that you guys are providing for everybody, taking a proactive approach for a very, very serious issue. It's been fantastic to have you guys on the show.

Luke: Thanks M.C. We appreciate it as well.

Mike: Yeah, thank you.

M.C. Laubscher: Thank you for joining me and my guests, Mike Harriett, and Luke Thiem, from Re:Mind Recover today. Remember to grab your free book download from Audible. You can download any book for free when you try Audible for 30 days. You can grab you free book download at cashflowninja.com/freebookdownload. Just a reminder again, all of our shows and show notes are at cashflowninja.com, and you can join our community by texting cashflowninja, one word, all capitalized at 44222. That's two 4s and three 2s. And if you sign up to join our community, I will email you three of our top ten books ever written on building wealth. Community members in our mailing list will get weekly shows sent directly to their inbox, along with other valuable resources and information. That's our show today, everyone. Until next time, live a life of passion and purpose on your terms.

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